Comments on: The VSM Bill: wut?

By: Armstrong

Armstrong — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:56:17 +0000

They taught apostrophes and this and that in the third grade or whatever. I didn’t like using them and Ms Jennings got well vexed, man.

By: Salient Chief Sub-Editor Mikey Langdon

Salient Chief Sub-Editor Mikey Langdon — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:16:14 +0000

Hey. Hey everyone. *students’ association(s)

By: Alpha

Alpha — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:44:34 +0000

*But if we were to have VSM, then people would (by and large) stick to the default option (non-membership), whether or not VUWSA’s action/inaction warranted such.

By: Alpha

Alpha — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:43:03 +0000

@Student student: I am all for choice. I think the current level of choice is too restrictive, so I think that aspect should be reformed… i.e. opt-out.

Yes, importance is subjective, but only to an extent. VUWSA helps a number of students practically. Not me, but I’d like to know that the freedom to use those services is there. Exactly how does ACT On Campus do anything like this? You may see it as important in the sense that you find it a really engaging and worthwhile organisation, but VUWSA is far more important in the sense that it exists to serve students, regardless of political or other persuasion. More people find VUWSA useful than ACT On Campus. If one were to hedge a bet to which one was more important, it’d be the former.

Even if (ridiculously hypothetically) we were, by default, drafted into ACT On Campus, I would exercise my freedom to leave. And one should be able to do so with VUWSA. But if we were to have VSM, then people would stick to the default option (non-membership), whether or not VUWSA’s action/inaction warranted such.

Have a look at this: http://ideas.repec.org/p/dnb/dnbwpp/165.html

By: smackdown

smackdown — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:45:30 +0000

so the big beatles argument here is that if csm goes, students won’t give enough of a ringo to join up. well idk but maybe if vuwsa and student associations in general did more than send out flaky press releases nobody but the guy who runs media darlings will read, and actively meet the student population ON THEIR LEVEL, then, fuck, students will prob think “hey this vuwsa thing is worthwhile sweet i’ll join”

but no they’re dumb and boring and attract nicompoops and don’t do their job properly and just plain sux

this makes smackdown

By: Student student

Student student — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:22:34 +0000

@Alpha: Ultimatly your argument comes down to “Student associations should be opt out unlike anyone else because theyr really important”. The importance of a service is a subjective thing. I might think that the political representation provided to me by Act On Campus is far more important to me than any service i recieve from VUWSA. So why is your assessment of the importance of student associations to students the most valid? Peter thinks its really important that everyone joins Act on Campus, but thats a subjective thing. Why cant we allow every student the individual choice to decide the importance of the services which they recieve from a students association, like we do with every other good or service which people buy?

By: Alpha

Alpha — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:04:50 +0000

@Peter. As has been stated, you’re not comparing apples with apples, but it would be fairer than not being able to opt out (CSM), and far more practical than having to pay up-front and go out of one’s way to opt in (VSM).

By: Electrum Stardust

Electrum Stardust — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:01:37 +0000

The main difference is that a Student Association is supposed to provide services for all students, while something like ACT on Campus exists primarily to propagate ACT agendas, just as the ACT Party pushes ACT ideology in parliament. In fact, the Student Association is the one fully representative body in the university that serves all students as equals, regardless of whether they also sign up for, say, the Victoria Pole Dancing Fitness Club, the VUW Buddhist Society, or even ACT on Campus (though in reality many of these aspiring ACTors are probably rich enough to not care--- many of them are also likely to envisage an ACT-utopia where taxation is similarly "voluntary" for rich folks). It is also likely that VSM, if passed into legislation over our heads, would result in a far less representative and more exclusive 'club' where rich "members" have disproportionately more say and power than they now possess. Perhaps that is an additional reason why these young ACTors are so enthusiastic.

By: Milkshakes

Milkshakes — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:34:05 +0000

Ayn Rand’s estate won’t answer my emails.

By: peteremcc

peteremcc — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:25:27 +0000

ACT on Campus is run democratically and has a constitution that sets out our purpose.

Care to list any of these differences…